Shortly after the first season of Velma finished airing, I saw a reddit article saying “Jack Horner is more likeable than Velma.” A little more research later, and I found another article asking why Jack Horner is more likeable than Cinder Falls from RWBY, even though they basically have the same goals. They’re both evil villains who want to basically obtain as much magic for themselves as possible.

It’s weird because, ironically enough, Jack Horner is the only one of these three characters who wasn’t supposed to be sympathetic in any way, shape, or form. Jack is an unapologetic bastard who wants “all the world’s magic for himself and no one else,” is more dangerous to his own Baker’s Dozen than anything else in Puss in Boots: The Last Wish, and he’s even aware of how evil he is, as we see when he flicks the conscience cricket and calls him an idiot.

Some people on both reddit articles said that the reason is because the show didn’t try to make him sympathetic, and maybe that’s part of it. Velma was portrayed as if she was supposed to be a victim, and that she was only as bad as she needed to be in a world of bigots and shallow-minded morons, even though she was a completely rotten person. And Cinder was actually entertaining in the first few seasons of RWBY when she was still mysterious, but when it became clear that her only objective was “more power” and that her backstory was “suffered horribly as a slave,” she lost all likeability as a villain.

There might be something of an effect here where people will do the exact opposite of what the creators want. In this case, they’ll like a character who the writers aren’t even trying to make likeable, but as soon as the writers try to get you to sympathize with a woman who has literally committed genocide and murdered teenagers in cold blood, or a fat girl who eats fries out of the garbage and would probably commit genocide if she had the ability, people resist with all the fury of a positively bodied woman told she’s too wide to go down the waterslide without getting stuck in the tube.

But that’s more of a prescription of what not to do. Not every villain is as much fun to watch as Jack Horner just because we aren’t getting elbowed by the writers to sympathize with them. Nobody told you to sympathize with Hopper from A Bug’s Life, even though you definitely saw that movie as a kid, and there’s even a high chance you don’t even remember the villain I’m talking about, because he was one-note evil antagonistic grasshopper.

Another example is Hans, from Frozen. Hans has no sympathetic qualities, he was never meant to be sympathetic, but no one really likes him as a villain. In fact, a lot of people think that the movie would be better if he hadn’t been the surprise villain at the end of the film, anyway.

On the flip side, there are some villainous protagonists who are sympathetic and are likeable, even though they commit acts even worse than some of the things Velma does. The best example I can think of right now is Blitzø, from Helluva Boss. Technically, all of the people working for I.M.P. could qualify as villain protagonists, but for now, let’s just focus on Blitzø (the “o” is silent).

For those of you who don’t know, Helluva Boss is a series on YouTube by Vivziepop about demons from Hell who kill people for a living. People who’ve died and gone to Hell come to the office of I.M.P. and hire them to go kill someone on Earth. Cartoon violence ensues.

The entrepreneur behind this organization is Blitzø, an imp with a lot of issues, has had a lot of sexual conquests that have ended badly, and has been given a lot of chances at finding the intimate, happy life with friends and a family that he desperately wants, but screws it up every time. This guy has killed kids with his own hands, even advertising on his company that he’ll kids for free, but he’s way more likeable than Velma, who has never killed anyone (that we know of).

Part of this might be because Velma comes off as the kind of person who would murder people if she could and get away with it. She even says that she’d do exactly that if she were a rich white man, for the simple reason that she believes rich white men can do that with no consequences. And I do think we shouldn’t ignore the fact that Velma doesn’t have anywhere near as much power as Jack Horner or Blitzø. It’s extremely possible that Velma would go on a ruthless killing spree if she had the power. It wouldn’t be out of character for her to Thanos-snap every white male and every woman who is more attractive than her out of existence if given the chance.

But the reason people like Blitzø and not Velma can’t just be because he has the means to act out his worst desires while she doesn’t. I’m not saying it doesn’t help; seeing an imp go all out as a ruthless murderer is a lot more fun than watching a chubby girl cry about all the people she wishes she could lash out against. There’s just something more honest about Blitzø’s character go on rampages and let out the worst parts of his personality that you don’t see in a character like Velma.

“Fun” might be a key part of the magic formula here; Jack Horner and Blitzø are both funny characters who are entertaining to watch in part because of their antics, and neither Cinder Fall nor Velma Dinkley seem like fun characters.

It’s not just a male character thing, either. Some of the best Disney villains who are the most entertaining to watch are the ones who’ve never even attempted to appeal to our sympathies; this includes Cruella Deville and Maleficent, two female villains with no redeeming qualities who are nothing but fun to watch. And when Disney decided to try and give them their own movies with tragic backstories, it was almost as if they took a big straw and sucked all the fun out of these characters.

And yet, when we look at Blitzø and his struggles to find proper intimacy, we’re still able to sympathize with this literal hell spawn, even if we were laughing at his ridiculous antics only moments earlier.

So, you can have a villain be evil, have them do terrible things, have them be sympathetic and even feel bad for them, and have them be fun to watch all in one. What’s the glue that allows you to hold all of these contradictions together?

Well, there’s one thing Helluva Boss has going for it that Velma doesn’t. While Velma was written with the intent of making the titular character [sym]pathetic, and seems to believe that Velma’s negative qualities aren’t the glaring problems that they are, Vivziepop and her show are fully aware that Blitzø is the primary architect of his own problems, and the show doesn’t even try to find some external villain on whom they can blame Blitzø’s personality flaws.

In short, self-awareness, and a complete lack of victimhood mentality, make Blitzø stand out from characters like Jack Horner, a villain whom we like to watch but don’t sympathize with, Cinder Fall, a villain whom we don’t like to watch except when she gets beaten by the heroes and don’t sympathize with even though the staff at Rooster Teeth want us to, and Velma, a protagonist we don’t sympathize with and don’t like to watch except when the police officer runs her over with his car.

RWBY tries to blame Cinder’s villainy on her upbringing, never giving her responsibility for her choices on what to do with her life once she got her freedom. Jack is just a villain who’s supposed to be evil. But it’s Helluva Boss’s awareness of Blitzø’s flaws and refusal to give him an excuse, even though it’s implied he had a rough upbringing, that allows his character to shine.

I’m certain some people reading this are going to say “well, duh. Of course a character is easier to like if the show is self-aware!” But hopefully, Blitzø can show people of just how far you can go with the right mix of humility, responsibility, and humor.

Remember: you can get away with anything if you’re funny enough.